al-firaushah

Arabian Dialects

Chris Turner wrote: “If it was necessary for ALLAH - GOD to reveal it in the different dialects, then there must be a significant difference between these dialects - yes or no

“but how different ?

“e.g. is it

“(A) just pronunciation e.g. in the S of England we say “Baaarth & Graaass in the North they say “Bath & Grass” with a short a - but if that is all it was why did Allah have to reveal the Koran in the different dialect, Mohamed could have just pronounced the words differently?

“(B) different words for the same thing e.g. blackberry in the south - bramble in the North? Sidewalk (US) - Pavement (UK),

“(C) different words and grammar, e.g. Standard English, “I am going he is….”, old fashioned country English “I be going, he be …”,

“(d) very different words and grammar, UK v West Indian English

“which was it ?”

In my research, the answer is at least both (a) and (b). (It could also be (c) or (d), but I haven’t read anything to suggest that yet.)

“In some cases, each tribe used different words to describe the same object. For example, some tribes called the lion an ‘asad,’ while other tribes called it a ‘layth,’ ‘hamzah,’ ‘hafs,’ or a ‘ghadanfar.’ In other cases, differences occurred in the way certain letters were pronounced due to vowelling differences.”
– Dr. Abu Ameenah Bilal Philips, “Usool at-Tafseer: The Methodology of Qur’aanic Explanation,” p. 175

“In order to take into account the various differences which existed among the Arabian dialects, Allaah revealed the Qur’aan in seven different forms. The forms matched the dialects of the following seven tribes: Quraysh, Huthayl, Thaqeef, Hawaazin, Kinaanah, Tameem, and Yemen. These various forms did not represent different Qur’aans, as Jibreel only conveyed verses from a single Qur’aan written on a protected tablet (al-Lawh al-Mahfooth) in the heavens. However, Jibreel was instructed to recite the verses that he brought in seven forms corresponding to the dialects of the major tribes. The various forms represented the various ways in which the same word might be said according to the various dialects. However, the meanings were all stated the same.”
– ibid, pp. 176-7

“This Qur’aan has been revealed in seven forms, so recite whichever is easiest for you.”
– ibid, pp. 178 (Sahih Al-Bukhari, vol. 6, p. 482, no. 514 and Sahih Muslim, vol. 2, pp. 389-90, no. 1782)

Qur’an Supports Flat-Earth Theory? Irrelevant!

Sabiqun wrote: “I must confess that from here onwards, I don’t know how I can address the particular verses in mention without addressing the ‘arabic issue’.”

Perhaps I can help.

I’ve only looked at the past few posts in this thread, but what strikes me about this conversation (especially from Rex’s side) is how it misses the forest for the trees. There’s all this yada, yada, yada about how verses x, y and z somehow “prove” that the Qur’an supports a flat-earth theory.

IRRELEVANT!

The purpose of the Qur’an is to provide arguments in favor of a belief in one God, Allah (swt), a moral lifestyle, and so on. In the case of verses 88:17-20 (one example), the argument is the former, how by considering different aspects of nature (in this case, the camel, the sky, the mountains and the earth) one may come (insha’allah) to an understanding as to who the Creator really is.

“Allah commands His servants to look at His creations that prove His power and greatness. He says,

“(Do they not look at the camels, how they are created) Indeed it is an amazing creation, and the way it has been fashioned is strange. For it is extremely powerful and strong, yet gentle, carrying heavy loads. It allows itself to be guided by a weak rider. It is eaten, benefit is derived from its hair, and its milk is drunk. They are reminded of this because the most common domestic animal of the Arabs was the camel. Shurayh Al-Qadi used to say, ‘Come out with us so that we may look at the camels and how they were created, and at the sky and how it has been raised.’ Meaning, how Allah raised it in such magnificence above the ground. This is as Allah says,

“(Have they not looked at the heaven above them, how we have made it and adorned it and there are no rifts on it) (50:6) Then Allah says,

“(And at the mountains, how they are rooted) meaning, how they have been erected. For indeed they are firmly affixed so that the earth does not sway with its dwellers. And He made them with the benefits and minerals they contain.

“(And at the earth, how it is outspread) meaning, how it has been spread out, extended and made smooth. Thus, He directs the bedouin to consider what he himself witnesses. His camel that he rides upon, the sky that is above his head, the mountain that faces him, and the earth that is under him, all of this is proof of the power of the Creator and Maker of these things. These things should lead him to see that He is the Lord, the Most Great, the Creator, the Owner, and the Controller of everything. Therefore, He is the God other than Whom none deserves to be worshipped.” (My emphasis.)
– Source

Arguments like Rex’s is merely barking up the wrong tree.

Understanding the Qur’an is a lot easier when you leave your preconceived notions behind.

More about the Sun’s Orbit, mentioned in the Qur’an

idbc wrote: “Nice try dunner, but the Sura implies that the moon and the sun have the same orbit. (#42)”

No, the sura makes no such implication. The sura states, “They float each in an orbit.” (My emphasis.) Not, “they float each in the same orbit.” I’ve tried to think about why you might have made such an erroneous original statement (”Why does the Quran say that the sun has an orbit, when we know it doesn’t ?” (#38)). Even the ancients, as far back as Ptolemy (Claudius Ptolemaeus; 85-165 CE), knew that the heavenly bodies all travelled in separate orbits. My conclusion was that you must be taking the perspective of an observer who watches the sun, moon and planets as they traverse the zodiacal band, wherein most of those bodies (with the notable exception of Pluto, the comets and some asteroids) all appear to be moving within the same area of the sky. Even if we take this perspective, the earlier sentence in the sura remains true: “It is not for the sun to overtake the moon…” The sun, of course, can never “overtake” the moon in the sky. The moon moves too quickly in its apparent motion. When there’s a solar eclipse, it is the moon that overtakes and then passes the sun, not the other way around.

“It should also be pointed out that is is NOT the ‘SUN’ that revolves around the a ‘galactic center’ but the entire solar system. (#43)”

Irrelevant. It is the sun’s gravity that holds the solar system together. The sun orbits around the galactic center; the rest of the solar system is merely along for the ride.

“Also as I pointed out the sun does not ‘orbit’ the center of our galaxy. (#45)”

Never taken an astronomy class, huh? Well, here’s some information for you:

“The sun is one of hundreds of billion of stars in our galaxy, the Milky Way. The galaxy is composed of gaseous interstellar medium, neutral or ionized, sometimes concentrated into dense gas clouds made up of atoms molecules, and dust. All of the matter — gas, dust, and stars — rotate around a central axis perpendicular to the galactic plane. The centrifugal force caused by the rotation balances out the gravitational force, which draw all the matter toward the center.

“The mass is located within the circle of the Sun’s orbit through the galaxy is about 100 billion times the mass of the Sun. Because the Sun is about average in mass, astronomers have concluded that the galaxy contains about 100 billion stars within its disk.

“All stars in the galaxy rotate around a galactic center but not with the same period. Stars at the center have a shorter period than those farther out. The Sun is located in the outer part of the galaxy. The speed of the solar system due to the galactic rotation is about 220 km/s. The disk of stars in the Milky Way is about 100,000 light years across and the sun is located about 30,000 light years from the star’s center. Based on a distance of 30,000 light years and a speed of 220 km/s, the Sun’s orbit around the center of the Milky Way once every 225 million years. The period of time is called a cosmic year. The Sun has orbited the galaxy, more than 20 times during its 5 billion year lifetime. The motions of the period are studied by measuring the positions of lines in the galaxy spectra.”

Source: Period of the Sun’s Orbit around the Galaxy (Cosmic Year) (All italics mine.)

Understanding the Qur’an is a lot easier when you leave your preconceived notions behind.

Sun’s Orbit in the Qur’an

idbc wrote: “Why does the Quran say that the sun has an orbit, when we know it doesn’t?”

I suspect idbc is referring to either of the following verses:

“And He it is Who created the night and the day, and the sun and the moon. They float, each in an orbit.” (21:33)

“It is not for the sun to overtake the moon, nor doth the night outstrip the day. They float each in an orbit.” (36:40)

We all know that the moon has its own orbit, revolving around the earth; however, the sun has its own orbit as well…around the galactic center, which is estimated to take about 225-250 million years for one “cosmic year.”

The Qur’an is correct, yet again.

Memorizing the Qur’an

arnof79 wrote: “is’t very interesting!. To the best of my lill knowledge, there is no one which can recite the bible by heart. any idea? and what is the explanation?”

The Bible in its entirety (New and Old Testaments), I don’t believe, was ever intended to be recited or memorized in full (although I believe portions of the Old Testament were written for the purpose of recitation). The Bible, of course, was written by numerous authors as opposed to the Qur’an (one - Allah (swt)). Moreover, the Bible is a combination of different writing styles, being mostly prose with a smattering of poetry. The Qur’an has a unified style, being neither prose nor poetry, but using some of the elements of poetry, such as rhymes and near-rhymes.

People are able to memorize the entire Qur’an due to several reasons. First, as I mentioned above, there is the poetic element of rhymes and near-rhymes. To the best of my knowledge, virtually every verse of the Qur’an ends in a rhyme or near-rhyme. For example, Al-Ikhlas:

Qul huwa Allahu ahad
Allahu alssamad
Lam yalid walam yoolad
Walam yakun lahu kufuwan ahad

“Say: He is Allah, the One and Only; Allah, the Eternal, Absolute; He begetteth not, nor is He begotten; And there is none like unto Him.” (112:1-4)

As you can see, each verse ends in an “ahd” sound. Even the verses that are the most “legalese” rhyme. (Ask your local legislators to try writing laws that rhyme! )

Another reason why the Qur’an is memorized by so many is that children are encouraged to learn the Qur’an. Many are taught the Qur’an by rote, others learn Arabic and are able to memorize because they have an understanding of the language.

Of course, for us adults, memorizing the Qur’an may be more problematic; however, there are numerous websites that provide recitations by various people that allow us to listen to the proper pronunciation of the verses. You might find this page, Short Surahs of the Quran, to be of interest. (All of these audio clips are set up for RealPlayer.)

With regard to memorizing the Qur’an, one of my favorite quotations is from Mohammad Marmaduke Pickthall, an Englishman who converted to Islam and translated the Qur’an into English in the 1930s. In his footnote to verse 55:17, he wrote:

“It is a fact that the Koran is marvellously easy for believers to commit to memory. Thousands of people in the East know the whole Book by heart. The translator [Pickthall], who find [sic] great difficulty in remembering well-known English quotations accurately, can remember page after page of the Koran in Arabic with perfect accuracy.”

“And in truth We have made the Qur’an easy to remember: but is there any that remembereth?” (55:17)

Reading the Qur’an in Order?

“do i read the quran in order or i select whatever?”

The Qur’an may be read in any order. You will
discover that it’s not a “linear” type of book. You
can read the Qur’an from front to back, from back to
front, or choose any individual surah (chapter) that
tickles your fancy.

Taking the Qur’an out of Context

A popular pastime of many non-Muslims (primarily, but not limited to Christians) is to take ayaat (verses) out of context from the Qur’an. In doing so, they think that they are proving a point (e.g., trying to prove that Islam is “violent”) but what they really show is their ignorance of the Qur’an and Islam.

The Qur’an was revealed in stages to Muhammad (pbuh) over a 23-year period. Many of these ayaat were revealed in response (normally after, but sometimes before) to specific historical events. As a result, there is often an historical context to these ayaat that Muhammad (pbuh) and the Sahabah (“companions” to the Prophet (pbuh) – the first Muslim community) knew instinctively; after all, they were living through those events. However, we Muslims and non-Muslims are living 1400-plus years after the fact, and non-Muslims in particular are ignorant of Islamic history. Trying to use an ayah in a general fashion that was revealed for a specific event in history is tricky business, even for a Muslim. Without an understanding of early Islamic history and Arabian culture, mistakes are often made in the interpretation of Qur’anic ayaat. As an imam once said in a khutbah (sermon), “To understand the Qur’an, one must understand the life of Muhammad (pbuh). And to understand the life of Muhammad (pbuh), one must understand the lives of the Sahabah.”

To be continued, insha’allah.

Muhammad (pbuh) #2

“Ok, why do people believe Mohammed is God’s prophet if he in the beginning said all the people of the book (including Christians and Jews) were God’s people capable of salvation, and shouldn’t be killed, but later said all people who are not Muslim should be killed? Why is he considered a prophet if first he said that Islam is not compulsory, but later said to kill all the infidels.”

This is a gross distortion of what the Qur’an actually says. Nowhere does the Qur’an say that all who are not Muslim (or all infidels) should be killed. What the Qur’an does say, for example, is:

“Fight in the cause of Allah those who fight you, but do not transgress limits; for Allah loveth not transgressors. And slay them wherever ye catch them, and turn them out from where they have Turned you out; for tumult and oppression are worse than slaughter; but fight them not at the Sacred Mosque, unless they (first) fight you there; but if they fight you, slay them. Such is the reward of those who suppress faith.” (2:190-1)

“Why should ye be divided into two parties about the Hypocrites? Allah hath upset them for their (evil) deeds. Would ye guide those whom Allah hath thrown out of the Way? For those whom Allah hath thrown out of the Way, never shalt thou find the Way. They but wish that ye should reject Faith, as they do, and thus be on the same footing (as they): But take not friends from their ranks until they flee in the way of Allah (From what is forbidden). But if they turn renegades, seize them and slay them wherever ye find them; and (in any case) take no friends or helpers from their ranks;- Except those who join a group between whom and you there is a treaty (of peace), or those who approach you with hearts restraining them from fighting you as well as fighting their own people. If Allah had pleased, He could have given them power over you, and they would have fought you: Therefore if they withdraw from you but fight you not, and (instead) send you (Guarantees of) peace, then Allah Hath opened no way for you (to war against them). Others you will find that wish to gain your confidence as well as that of their people: Every time they are sent back to temptation, they succumb thereto: if they withdraw not from you nor give you (guarantees) of peace besides restraining their hands, seize them and slay them wherever ye get them: In their case We have provided you with a clear argument against them.” (4:88-91)

“But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them, an seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war); but if they repent, and establish regular prayers and practise regular charity, then open the way for them: for Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful.” (9:5)

Before I begin my analysis, we need to stress a point that most non-Muslims overlook when reading the Qur’an: the Qur’an frequently needs to be read in the light of its context. There are generalities in the Qur’an that have guided the lives of Muslims since its revelation, including the Muslims of today, but many verses are also best understood by examining the context of the verses, not only the literary context (what other verses precede and come after the verse in question), but the religious and - most importantly - the historical context as well.

In the first case (verses 2:190 and 2:191), we have a general commandment (“Fight in the cause of Allah those who fight you,…). However, even this is limited (“…but do not transgress limits; for Allah loveth not transgressors.), the limits being such as if the enemy quits fighting, then the Muslims too should quit fighting as well. In the second verse, though, we find that the “them” in question are the Pagans of Makkah. This deduction is made from the phrase (“fight them not at the Sacred Mosque”), and is obvious to any who has studied early Islamic history.

In the second case, we find another verse that reads “seize them and slay them wherever ye find them”, but the literary context shows that “they” is referring to the Hypocrites, a Medinan faction of pseudo-Muslims who came to naught before the Prophet’s (pbuh) death. Likewise, in the third case, we are told directly that those whom should be slain were the Pagans of Makkah. This is not a general commandment to the Muslims of today that we should slay “pagans”; the verse is a time-specific commandment referring to a specific people (although the second half of the verse, “…but if they repent…”, is a general commandment that could be applicable today).

There are other verses that refer to fighting, but these too need to be considered in the appropriate context. Like other religious books, the Qur’an is deep and subtle and requires more than a surface reading in order to understand it. Little effort put into understanding the Qur’an will result in little profit.